Why Seminary or Even Studies at All?
Ahhhhh...Blogging. Well I am trying to return back from my work and homework schedule of the summer months it has been hecktick to say the least. But I have returned with something on my mind. Oh yea, something has actually been on my mind and I am READY to say it (as if you care, right).
Anyway, I find myself thinking again and again about how it is that EVERYONE is an expert in theology/Bible? I mean it is baffling to me as to why churches demand that men who desire the office of a Bishop spend some difficult time and money to go and STUDY the Bible? I mean, it was not so much a mystery to me until I began to actually do it. Ya know, go to a Bible College graduate and then move to a Seminary to further study the text of Scripture under difficult circumstances and so on and so forth. Now I am into my fourth (and final) year of Seminary and I learning that nearly everyone who does not go to seminary or perhaps even Bible college is convinced that they understand, perceive, discern, and perhaps even know just as much if not more than I ( and other seminary/theological students).
I know this because biblical conversations over somewhat "controversial" subjects (calvinism, liberty issues, service types etc.) usually end up having a layperson say, "well, I think", or "It seems to me", or better yet he says, "That's not true". I mean, why do many churches insist upon having men go to seminary for TRAINNING if in the end every Tom, Dick and Harry know just as much, or even more than the Pastor? See what I am saying? What is the point of extended study for a pastor from a lay person's perspective if he already thinks he understands the issues better, is more discerning or even knows just as much as his Pastor or those studying to become Pastors?
Please do not misunderstand I am not saying that only the "professionals" can understand the Bible. However, I am arguing that they do know more than the average congregant. We demand this of them! Right? I mean, they study it more than the average trade worker, golfer, engineer etc. Right? They have been called to and have spend time daily working and laboring at their task. So I ask you why is there so much resistance and posturing when it comes to learning from men who honestly love God and want to continue his work in the body of Christ?
I know that I need to clarify some of my thoughts. I look forward to your responses. Perhaps I have ranted without context? Do you feel me?
Anyway, I find myself thinking again and again about how it is that EVERYONE is an expert in theology/Bible? I mean it is baffling to me as to why churches demand that men who desire the office of a Bishop spend some difficult time and money to go and STUDY the Bible? I mean, it was not so much a mystery to me until I began to actually do it. Ya know, go to a Bible College graduate and then move to a Seminary to further study the text of Scripture under difficult circumstances and so on and so forth. Now I am into my fourth (and final) year of Seminary and I learning that nearly everyone who does not go to seminary or perhaps even Bible college is convinced that they understand, perceive, discern, and perhaps even know just as much if not more than I ( and other seminary/theological students).
I know this because biblical conversations over somewhat "controversial" subjects (calvinism, liberty issues, service types etc.) usually end up having a layperson say, "well, I think", or "It seems to me", or better yet he says, "That's not true". I mean, why do many churches insist upon having men go to seminary for TRAINNING if in the end every Tom, Dick and Harry know just as much, or even more than the Pastor? See what I am saying? What is the point of extended study for a pastor from a lay person's perspective if he already thinks he understands the issues better, is more discerning or even knows just as much as his Pastor or those studying to become Pastors?
Please do not misunderstand I am not saying that only the "professionals" can understand the Bible. However, I am arguing that they do know more than the average congregant. We demand this of them! Right? I mean, they study it more than the average trade worker, golfer, engineer etc. Right? They have been called to and have spend time daily working and laboring at their task. So I ask you why is there so much resistance and posturing when it comes to learning from men who honestly love God and want to continue his work in the body of Christ?
I know that I need to clarify some of my thoughts. I look forward to your responses. Perhaps I have ranted without context? Do you feel me?
posted by adam at 3:59 PM
16 Comments:
Thomas,
I totally feel you. It is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you don't assert your understanding in a conversation they will continue to think that their understanding is just as tenable as yours, if not better. On the other hand, if you tip your hand and show why their perspective is wrong and give a coherent, reasoned, and thoughtful answer for why, you are viewed as arrogant.
It isn't to absolve Pastor's or seminary students of arrogance, for certainly we are all guilty; rather, it is to point out that there is a sense in our churches that the Holy Spirit leads us all into truth, and so we don't need a teacher -- especially not one who thinks he knows more than us.
I think part of the solution is to, as a Pastor, show your people both how much you know -- that is, it should be plain that you excell them in your theological acumen -- and how little you know -- we should constantly be pointing to the men who we learn from and holding them up as gifts to the church from whom all of us can learn and benefit. My church has tried to do that, and I think they have had some measured success.
Thanks for raising the topic -- you hit it on the head.
Baylor: Good point about it being a lose lose situation. The choice is ignorance or arrogance and never simple appreciation from others. Humility is definitely a key issue here. Coming under the Scriptures in order to learn from them is crucial as opposed to bringing agendas to the Text. Just the other day I was teaching Romans to the junior highers that I have been given the privilege to lead, and I had to tell them that I was honestly not sure about the meaning chapters 9-11. Although I think I have an idea of Paul's intentions, I am a) not able to teach contrary to my church, and b) not convinced in my thinking. So, I simply gave them the views of both sides. Thanks for the thoughts.
Adam: I can sense your frustration. Churches, at least the ones you would be interested in or called to, would never consider hiring a man with no seminary (or at the very least, Bible college) training. Yet, a pastor's thoughts on the Text, even after hours or rigorous study, are often thrown to the wayside due to preference, tradition, theological agendas, or sheer stubbornness. I think the key to what you are saying is the "I think" part. Many times there is no Scriptural basis for such thoughts, yet we all like to be opinionated. We, as pastors, are called to rightly divide the Text to the best of our abilities under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, we must also remember that God, in His sovereignty, may not allow a church to grow as much as the pastor would like to see. Anyway, I am just rambling now. Good work!
I found this quote on Daniel Patz' blog and I thought it went along well with what James said about humility. It was a kick in the teeth, and you feel dirty once you've read it, but it lends perspective to our difficulties as pastors in light of our responsibilities.
"A pastor should not complain about his congregation, certainly never to other people, but also not to God. A congregation has not been entrusted to him in order that he should become its accuser before God and men." -- Deitrich Bonhoeffer
Speaking from the position of someone who is a seminary student in a full-time pastoral ministry, I can definitely understand your concerns/frustrations. I can't help wondering two things:
First, could this be one reason Paul so frequently insisted on loving the brotherhood of believers? Did he experience the same problems? We desperately need to demonstrate love...even to the most frustrating people.
Second, could this have any pracical implications for our understanding of church government? I know we start with Scripture, not with our frustrations, but I'm just throwing out the possibility that this reality may shed some supporting light on a less-than-democratic understanding of the NT church's polity.
Will:
I agree Will. How is it that those who rarely care as much as the leadership for the direction of the church, theologically, evangelistically, etc. have equal footing in the discision making process and end?
I also agree that Scripture must be our starting point for polity as well as all agendas. However, it seems that Scripture leads to a more elder based organization anyway so I guess we're alright.
:)
Ed:
Good to hear from you once again. I am glad to know that a brother is being warmly received among the people of God and respected in his teaching compacity.
teach faithfully.
If I can chime in late in the discussion. I would like to point back to Baylor's original post that you can't win. I have witnessed this first hand trying to explain a viewpoint. For instance, I had a guy who graduated from a christian liberal arts school say to me, "what do you need to study in seminary? I mean I already learned theology and survey of the OT/NT in my undergrad."
I was at a loss and I wasn't quite sure how to say the same things many have said before us. "You don't even know the questions!" You don't know what it's like to lay awake at night wondering if this is all a myth b/c of a textual critical issue you can't resolve. Or the fact that you're kept awake b/c your eschatological foundation being rocked by a new text of Scripture that everyone sweeps under the rug. These are real difficulties that call for serious student to wrestle with them.
What I have found the most headway with is the explanation by analogy to laymen not excited about seminary. I use the old: "you wouldn't want some one who had a mere 4 year degree operating on your body would you!?! Then how come you let them take a crack at your soul!"
-works everytime :)
I for one appreciate the simplicity of barkers illustration. It gets to the point, and it is terrifying. Nothing like a little fear to do the trick.
Jesse,
I think the issue is about both questions rather than simply one. FIrst, there is disagreement from laypeople. And second, the disagreement seems to come from laypeople thinking they understand the text in the same manner a seminary graduate would. Although, as Adam mentioned, the Bible is understandable without an in-depth understanding of Greek, it would be foolish to think that someone with out a seminary education (or rigorous personal study) would be able to have the same sort of knowledge.
Also, earning the qualification of "pastor" is impossible since it is a spiritual gift. Since it is my responsibility to discern what my gift is, I have relied on the work of the Holy Spirit leading me to that conclusion. I was by no means referring to the education part of it. I am definitely lacking in that.
I am glad to see you have finally jumped in to the blogosphere!
Jesse,
I think the issue is about both questions rather than simply one. FIrst, there is disagreement from laypeople. And second, the disagreement seems to come from laypeople thinking they understand the text in the same manner a seminary graduate would. Although, as Adam mentioned, the Bible is understandable without an in-depth understanding of Greek, it would be foolish to think that someone with out a seminary education (or rigorous personal study) would be able to have the same sort of knowledge.
Also, earning the qualification of "pastor" is impossible since it is a spiritual gift. Since it is my responsibility to discern what my gift is, I have relied on the work of the Holy Spirit leading me to that conclusion. I was by no means referring to the education part of it. I am definitely lacking in that.
I am glad to see you have finally jumped in to the blogosphere!
chill thomas,
i could understand your disenchantment with/vitriol against less educated people if you had spelled hectic any other way than "heck-tick"!
(had to give you the spelling shout-out just to stir it up...
you know you love it)
of course, i sympathize with you on many levels - having experienced this sort of thing more than several times the past year and a half at norfolk garden.
it's all just a part of the gig.
just silence them with grace and truth, and hang in there, bro.
Jesse,
I was not intentionally using them as the same. I thought by saying that I was not speaking of the "education" part of it I was also including the office. I recognize that there are those who are in the office who may not have the gift. However, you did get me. I was writing that comment on my lunch break and rushed it a little bit. I think you just like to stir up the pot :).
Jesse:
I think that you are missing my point and conversation. I am not referring to those who "disagree" with me on the grounds of "interpretation". You are assuming that the individuals whom I had in mind had such an answer or comment valid enough to call an "interpretation". I am talking about offering an interpretation as a pastor/teacher and then having anyone and everyone decide that my actual interpretation is invalid based upon their own preference, tradition, or personal philosophy of life or God.
thus, you analogy was off base since the analogy presents two people with "interpretations" of scripture. My analogy/situation does not. Rather, pastors and teachers are often times viewed as only having as valid a perspective as the next guy no matter the amount of Biblical data to "prove" the validity of his perspective.
As far as differing interpretations are concerned I LOVE them. I would honor some ones exegesis (perhaps not in all circumstances)if it be atleast exegesis! That is my whole point. We as students and teachers have worked hard to exegete the text of scripture for people and yet often times the exegesis is easily rejected on grounds of simply wishing too believe something different. This is what I am referring to. So, no. I do not think, " they know more than you, when really you just disagree on interpretation, so they try to persuade you into agreeing with their interpretation (your words).
Please just give me your own exegesis or Biblical data for why you so disagree with my interpretation. that would be all that I am saying.
Jesse:
P.S. I certainly do not, nor does anyone who visits this blog I trust, desire to have "Puppets" in their churches. Again, I think that the blog post has been a bit mishandled.
Jesse
I am glad that we more clearly understand one another. I agree with all the difficulties of reading verses talking but for all of its ills its really a lot of fun. :)
I have to say that a proper understanding of the body dynamic is key. I know that I did not grow up with a real sense of the differing giftednesses in the Body. God has given the Body of Christ teachers, and it should be very clear to the members who those teachers are. This is not just mental superiority or impervious logic, but a work of God's Holy Spirit. Our people must be taught about its leaders - that they are shepherds, teachers, elders, overseers, etc... When we thouroughly disciple our poeple in these unarguable facts and act out these roles faithfully, I think we can expect them to follow our lead. As far as believers who are not specifically under our care, they may choose to disagree and argue, but in the end we can only go so far with them. Let their own shepherds care for them.
excellently stated G. The acting out of these roles "faithfully" is the work that MUST be attended to.
thanks
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